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Does this mean I ask shaw to add another IP, or how exact...

Grasshopper

Does this mean I ask shaw to add another IP, or how exactly do I go about this? Is it called double NAT ?

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Does this mean I do something called double NAT ? Do I ne...

Grasshopper

@mdk Does this mean I do something called double NAT ? Do I need to talk to support about this?

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-- double NAT Your BlueCurve sends a DHCP-request (Dynami...

Grand Master

@meowimacat -- double NAT

Your BlueCurve sends a DHCP-request (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) to Shaw's DHCP-server.

The DHCP-server responds with a "public" IP-address.

Having a "public" IP-address means that your BlueCurve has a unique "address" on the Internet, which allows it, and only it, to receive IP-packets from any other computer with a "public" IP-address.

Your BlueCurve also contains a DHCP-server. Any computer/device (wired or wireless) in your home can send a DHCP-request to the BlueCurve. 

The BlueCurve responds by sending a "private" IP-address to your computer/device. Because it is a "private" IP-address, no computer with a "public" IP-address can send packets to your computer.

The IP-addresses sent by the BlueCurve to your computer always start with "10.0.0.", and end with a number between 2 and 255. The IP-address "10.0.0.1" is reserved for you to use as the IP-address of the BlueCurve, and it becomes your "gateway" to the "public" Internet.

When your computer tries to send an IP-packet to a "public" IP-address, say from "10.0.0.20" to the IP-address assigned to "www.google.ca", the BlueCurve does "NAT" (Network Address Translation). It changes the IP-address embedded inside that IP-packet to the "public" IP-address of the BlueCurve. When that "public" computer responds, by sending an IP-packet to the BlueCurve, the BlueCurve "remembers" that your IP-address ("10.0.0.20") is expecting an IP-packet, and does NAT again, and then forwards the modified IP-packet to your computer that requested the response.

So, that is "single NAT".

But, if you connect your own router to the BlueCurve, the DHCP-client inside the router will send a DHCP-request to the BlueCurve, and the BlueCurve will assign a "private" IP-address, say "10.0.0.21", to your router.

If you now connect your computer to your router, and issue an DHCP-request, your router will respond with an IP-address starting with "192.168.".

So, when your computer, say "192.168.1.2", sends an IP-packet to the IP-address for "www.google.ca", your router does NAT, changing the IP-address inside the IP-packet to "10.0.0.21", and then forwarding the modified IP-packet to the BlueCurve. This is one level of NAT. Then, as before, the BlueCurve will re-modify the IP-packet, to put its "public" IP-address into the IP-packet, and then the BlueCurve sends the IP-packet.  This is another level of NAT, i.e., "double NAT".

The response IP-packet from Google is sent to the BlueCurve, and the BlueCurve "un-does" the NAT, to send the IP-packet to your own router ("10.0.0.21"). Your own router also "un-does" NAT, to send the IP-packet to your computer, at "192.168.1.2".

Compare to living in one of a few apartment blocks inside a "gated community", and you invite somebody to come and visit you. Your invited guest must convince the security-guard at the gate to let you through the gate, and to guide you to the correct apartment block. Then, the security-guard (or concierge) at the entrance to the apartment block must direct you to the correct unit-number somewhere inside the block.  Your guest has encountered "double-(n)AT" routing, to get to your door.

 

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-- Does this mean I ask Shaw to add another IP. No. Using...

Grand Master

@meowimacat -- Does this mean I ask Shaw to add another IP.

No. Using "double-NAT" only requires ONE "public" IP-address.

One reason to request a second "public" IP-address is if you have a "mother-in-law" suite in your basement, and you want to connect two routers to your BlueCurve, and you want each router to have a "public" IP-address.  In this case, via the "private" IP-addresses handed-out by your router to computers in your level, your computers (and wireless printers)  can communicate with each other, and the "private" IP-addresses handed-out by the other router to computers in the basement can communicate with each other, but none of the computers on the main level can communicate with any computer in the basement level.

It's easily possible for the devices in the basement to be one computer, one smart-phone, and one Alexa assistant box.

The advantage of having a second router in the basement is that it could be located in the area where it gives the highest WiFi signal to some rooms (kitchen, bedroom) where the occupant is typically located.

Shaw may insist that the occupant of the basement suite have their own Shaw account, unless the occupant is a close relative (teenager, aged parent).

Note that you do not NEED to "bridge" the BlueCurve, if you want this "two-router" configuration.  Each router can do its part of a "double-NAT" setup.

If you do not "bridge" the BlueCurve, you can locate Shaw Portal TV boxes anywhere in your home where the WiFi signal (on a "hidden" network) can reliably reach from the BlueCurve to the Portal box.

 

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Thank you tiger mdk for answering! So it looks like I can...

Grasshopper

@mdk Thank you tiger mdk for answering! So it looks like I can just plug in the router and set up a double NAT, so I basically keep my existing network untouched just for the TV, and move all the devices I need to the 3rd party router? Therefore I do not need to call any Shaw technician, if I understand correctly. For you information I do not have a background in computer science, but thank you for explaining this to me. Is there anything else I should be aware of? For example, for the easiest way about it, I should not touch things called DHCP, DMZ, UPnP, Port Forwarding. Because this came up during my research but I have no idea how to go about it. https://support.google.com/wifi/answer/6277579?hl=en-CA#:~:text=Learn%20more%20about%20Double%20NAT....

I currently have a surveillance camera set up, but taking a look at the BlueCurve modem, there is a white cable I think is called the coax, however I do not know what the yellow cable is plugged (glows up), connecting to the wall is for, could this be due to what the camera technician installed?

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-- just connect your own router to one of the Ethernet po...

Grand Master

@meowimacat -- just connect your own router to one of the Ethernet ports on the BlueCurve, and "double NAT" will happen automatically.

Use a coaxial-cable, usually "white", to screw-in to the wall-outlet, and to screw-in to the socket on the BlueCurve. Of course, the BlueCurve will have a power-cord running to an electrical outlet.

If there is a third cable connected to the BlueCurve, it probably is an Ethernet cable -- usually with transparent ends, showing 8 coloured wires. If you squeeze a little "finger" on the end, it should unlock the end from the socket. Push it back in, until you hear a small "click".

My guess is this Ethernet cable is connected to your camera.

You need another Ethernet cable, connecting to the other Ethernet port on the BlueCurve, to connect to the "WAN" (or "uplink") port on your own router.

One problem you will have is to view the camera's output. Currently, the camera is a "private" device connected to the BlueCurve's network (namely through 1 of the 2 Ethernet ports), while your computers are "private" devices on the network created by your own router.  It would take some effort to configure everything to allow the transfer of information from the camera (on one private network) to your computer (on a different private network). It is much simpler to disconnect the camera's Ethernet cable from the BlueCurve, and then connect that end to a port on your own router. This puts the camera "inside" the same network as your computer, making it easily accessible.

No matter where the Ethernet cable from the camera is connected, in its default configuration, you won't be able to access the camera from any computer anywhere on the Internet -- no "spying" from a computer at your work-place (or by somebody unknown using a computer at a Public Library) of the output of the camera.

 

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What happens if I have also included Shaw home phone? I d...

Grasshopper

@mdk What happens if I have also included Shaw home phone? I don't see it as a device connected to the internet so do I need to take that into consideration?

Would it be suggested for me to log into 10.0.0 etc and look things up/record anything specific before I make a double NAT connection? For example I note there is mention of DHCP/Add device with reserved IP. And then there is Ipv4 and Ipv6 which I can see in the 10.0.0.1, but I assume it's best not to touch those settings.

I have observed that apparently Ontario has a similar system and I am looking things up. https://communityforums.rogers.com/t5/Ignite-TV/Using-the-Ignite-TV-Modem-Gateway-in-Bridge-Mode/td-...

 

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-- What happens if I have also included Shaw home phone?...

Grand Master

@meowimacat -- What happens if I have also included Shaw home phone? I don't see it as a device connected to the internet, so do I need to take that into consideration?

The Shaw Phone adapter is a device that connects to a coaxial cable. A Shaw PVR (or the older TV Digital set-top box) is a device that connects to a coaxial cable. A Shaw cable-modem/router is a device that connects to a coaxial cable. Only one of those 3 devices uses TCP/IP to communicate with your computers & devices, to provide Internet access, but all of them send/receive signals through the coaxial cables inside your home and then via Shaw's cable-plant.

Compare the Shaw cable-plant to a road -- you can ride a bicycle in the bicycle lane; you can take a bus/taxi and use the HOV (High Occupancy Vehicle) lane; you can drive "solo" in your automobile in a regular lane. The road is "multi-modal". Similarly, Shaw's cable-plant carries "phone" and "Internet" and "TV" services.

Is your Shaw Phone Adapter in the same room in your home as your BlueCurve? In my home, Shaw placed it just inside my home, with the Shaw "demarcation-box" immediately through the wall, on the outside of my home. So, normally, I do not "see" my Shaw Phone Adapter, unless I go into that corner of the basement where it is placed. The Adapter has a coaxial-cable going through the wall, into the demarcation-box, and a telephone-cable going into the "patch-panel" where all the telephone-wires inside the walls of my home meet, on one "side" of that patch-panel. The wires on the other "side" of the patch-panel were originally connected to the overhead Telus telephone-wire running to the nearest telephone-pole. When the Shaw Phone Adapter was installed, those wires to Telus were rerouted to connect to the Shaw Phone Adapter.  So, all my handsets can be plugged-in to any phone-outlet in my home.

There is frequent disconnects on either TV or devices, and thought using own router would be more stable. 

If you connect your TV using an HDMI cable to the Shaw PVR, you are not using any wireless protocol. So, in this configuration, any "disconnects" are NOT a symptom of a "wireless-problem". Instead, it's a problem "elsewhere", either "inside" your BlueCurve, or the coaxial-cables in your walls, or the Shaw cable-plant outside of your home. Adding your own router will not address this "elsewhere" problem.

If you connect your TV to a Shaw TV Portal, the Portal connects using a "hidden" wireless network, as provided by your Shaw BlueCurve. The Portal does NOT connect via any wireless network that you configure within the BlueCurve, or via any wireleless network that you configure within your own router.

If you switch to "bridged" mode on your BlueCurve, you disable the "hidden" wireless network that is provided by your Shaw BlueCurve. This is exactly why that the Shaw Portal WiFi boxes stop working.

> Would it be suggested for me to log into 10.0.0.1 and look things up/record anything specific before I make a double NAT connection?

No. The BlueCurve, when NOT in "bridged" mode, automatically does NAT. Your own router automatically does NAT. The immediate result is "double-NAT".

Note that the BlueCurve uses IP-addresses in the "10.0.xx.yy" range, while your own router uses IP-addresses in the "192.168.xx.yy" range. These are two "disjoint" networks, which is exactly what you want in a double-NAT situation. Only if you have an "oddball" router that also uses IP-addresses in the "10.0.xx.yy" network would you have to reconfigure your own router (not the BlueCurve) to use a "disjoint" network.

> I note there is mention of DHCP/Add device with reserved IP.

If you have a "networked-printer", it uses DHCP to obtain an IP-address. Each of your computers then connects to the printer via that IP-address. So, you want DHCP to always assign the same IP-address to the printer, so that the IP-address never changes, and so that you do not have to reconnect each computer to an IP-address that has changed. That is why you "reserve" an IP-address for the printer.

Then there is Ipv4 and Ipv6 which I can see in the 10.0.0.1, but I assume it's best not to touch those settings.

Correct. Let sleeping dogs lie. Don't poke the bear. If it ain't broke, you're not trying hard enough.

 

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It is inside, connected coax to another Arris modem I hav...

Grasshopper
  • @mdk It is inside, connected coax to another Arris modem, in terms of TV I am using wireless boxes, with the exception to the TV that is closest to the modem which I think is connected by wire

I have found this post that seems to describe what I am looking to do. It describes some new steps: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rogers/comments/bny3l5/how_to_use_your_own_router_with_ignite_modem/?utm_so...

A new question: theoretically speaking, I have seen people talk about this switch, if you use an ethernet cable to connect one router Xa to another router Xb, as part of Xa-Xb-Xc mesh system. Shouldn’t an ethernet cable be sufficient alone if I were to use Xa-Xb work directly? And what instance might I need a switch? 

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-- It is inside, connected coax to another Arris modem. T...

Grand Master

@meowimacat -- It is inside, connected coax to another Arris modem.

This is a forum for Shaw customers, not for Rogers customers.  I will ignore any reference to web-pages referring to the Rogers network, because I have no experience in how Rogers does TV and Ethernet.

You have lost me -- what is "it" ?

in terms of TV, I am using wireless boxes, with the exception to the TV that is closest to the modem which I think is connected by wire.

Your device seems to be a BlueCurve TV device. It connects via a "hidden" wireless network to your remote TV Portals.  That "wire" is probably an HDMI cable, connecting to an HDMI port on your TV:

HDMI-cable.jpg

> what instance might I need a switch?

If you have a BlueCurve Total device, it is a "two-in-one" box -- supporting both TV and Ethernet.

When your BlueCurve cable-modem is not in "bridged" mode, it can support up to 250 devices -- two directly-wired, via the BlueCurve's two Ethernet ports, and many, via its WiFi adapter. 

If an Ethernet cable connects one of the two ports on the cable-modem to a 8-port switch, then you can use 8 Ethernet cables to connect the switch to 8 computers. The 8 computers can communicate with each other, and also with the WiFi-connected devices. [A 16-port switch supports 16 computers; a 24-port switch supports 24 computers.]

A network switch can be compared to a power-bar -- one "input", and multiple "outputs". The switch will receive multiple IP-addresses, and then pass the traffic to only the computer that currently is using that IP-address.  A switch does not hand out IP-addresses. When a computer connected to the switch requests an IP-address, that request is passed to the BlueCurve cable-modem, and a "private" IP-address is assigned.  A switch does not have its own WiFi.

A router does hand out IP-addresses, and many routers have built-in WiFi. Computers & devices connected to this router cannot communicate with any computers & devices connected to the BlueCurve.

It is possible to have multiple BlueCurve TV boxes in your home. Each of the TV Portals can access any of the content stored on any of the BlueCurve TV boxes.

 

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