You're welcome. 😏

[JeffGWpg]

You're welcome. 😏

[proud-boomer]

Here's Rogers revenues, profits, and cash reserves just for the last quarter ending in June of this year:

Cash flow and available liquidity
This quarter, we generated cash provided by operating activities of $1,472 million (2023 - $1,635 million). The
decrease is primarily a result of a greater investment in net operating assets and liabilities, partially offset by higher
adjusted EBITDA. We generated free cash flow of $666 million (2023 - $476 million), up 40% as a result of higher
adjusted EBITDA, lower capital expenditures, and lower interest on long-term debt.
As at June 30, 2024, we had $4.3 billion of available liquidity2 (December 31, 2023 - $5.9 billion), consisting of $0.45
billion in cash and cash equivalents and $3.85 billion available under our bank and other credit facilities

So while their revenues were down from the same quarter last year, (mainly due to new infrastructure, which they own and will generate even more profits ultimately), they still managed to increase their profits by 40% from the same quarter last year.  Their profits were up 14% in the last 6 months overall on services.  They have over $450 million in cash, and available loans up to $3.85 Billion, which, I guess, now with this half month of early payments, they can delay digging into those loans a bit longer.

Rogers is hardly a company in any financial trouble, unlike perhaps millions of their subscribers, who may be struggling to maintain their services, and some, who I presume are in default and paying 3% a month in interest (compounded monthly) on overdue amounts. I don't know how long Rogers has to fully pay off Shaw for the purchase, but I assume they have been giving them a big chunk of money every quarter and they still have increased cash flow and profits.  And they also just bought out Bell's ownership ($4.7 BILLION) in MLSE.

MLSE owns the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Raptors, the Toronto Argonauts, Toronto FC and the American Hockey League’s Toronto Marlies.

Rogers already owns the Toronto Blue Jays, the Rogers Centre and Sportsnet.

Gee, sounds like they had no choice but to move payments up half a month, eh?

Nice work if you can get it...

[g-idk]

@proud-boomer , Don't really want to get involved in this back and forth, but just thought I'd let you know that the changes to the autopayment withdrawals and 21 day manual payments was introduced already over a year ago to all Rogers customers back east with internet/tv, and Rogers waited a year to bring Shaw's billing to match up together.  Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I agree with these changes, this is just for some backround imformantion.  

[proud-boomer]

Further proving how incredibly greedy Rogers is a company, during difficult economic times for many. When I spoke to a customer service person a couple days ago about this change for Rogers/Shaw clients, she told me "Rogers cares about your opinion and our customers". I told her the facts don't line up with that. I realize her job is to be a corporation mouthpiece, so I cast her no ill will. But the facts are the facts.

[mdk]

@proud-boomer -- if you make your payment to Rogers via a credit-card, then the charge is listed on your next credit-card invoice.  So, you will have up to a month (28+ days) after the charge before the charge is listed on your next credit-card invoice.  Then, credit-card companies (and Rogers) give you 21 days after the invoice's date to make your payment. 

So, pay Rogers via credit-card, and you will not be charged any interest for up to 49+ days. Definitely, you will not be paying "three percent compounded", if you follow the credit-card company's rules about cut-off date for each invoice, and payment-due date for each invoice. 

It is "free money" for you, as compared to paying via cash or through direct-debit (at an ATM, or at a teller, or via E-banking), where the amount is instantly removed.

[mdk]

@proud-boomer wrote I don't recall having used the term "double-billed" in my posts ...

You did write "double billing", last Friday.

If that double billing on my credit card statement was beyond my finances, I would have to carry that second bill on my credit card and pay 18-25% annual interest on it, while Rogers gets my payment for two weeks I haven't even used yet, interest free.

Do you pay your monthly rent on the FIRST day of each month, or on the LAST day of the month? If on the FIRST, your landlord gets your payment for 4 weeks that you haven't even used yet.

Pay your credit-card balance in FULL, by the DUE DATE, and you will pay ZERO interest to the credit-card company. QED

[proud-boomer]

I just dug out my Shaw invoices.  I've been with them for 22 years, and I have every bill.  I found something rather interesting, which I only noticed now.  From 2002 to 2020, Shaw had been billing me one full month in advance.  Then in February of 2020, I made changes to my service, and my billing (withdrawal from my credit card account) changed to a day after my service was used.  The timing may have been coincidental.  There were some changes made to the internet services act in Canada around that time, when the CRTC started to oversee ISPs, so that may be why Shaw made that change.  I have been paying after service use since then, over 4 years ago.

The scenario you state above is not correct for me.

I received TWO billings on my August Statement. How much time my credit card grants me to pay is irrelevant to this discussion, because whatever that may be, hasn't changed and it that has to do with the billing cycle they have with me, the type of credit card, and the grace period afforded me due to my credit score. If I had budgeted for only one billing from Shaw/Rogers for the month of August, to be paid when my August statement was due,  and if I could not cover a second amount in that month, I would be charged interest by my credit card company for that non-payment of the second bill. On the other hand, Rogers got their money from the credit card company, as soon as it was posted.

So, here's the exact rundown: I was billed on August 8th by Rogers on my credit card for my July 8th to August 7th usage. My credit card was charged one day after that use period ended, not a month, just as almost every utility does, at minimum. Once again, when Rogers chooses to issue the statement is also irrelevant, for all I care, they could issue it three months early, but then it would be at least 2 months before I even received that service. All I care about is when did I receive the service and when was my credit card billed for it. Then on August 21st, I was billed by Rogers on my credit card again, this time mid cycle of my usage, so that amount was collected by Rogers for my August 8 to September 7th billing cycle, half way through it. At the time, Rogers was paid by my credit card company, but only half of my usage for the billing cycle had occurred.

If this didn't massively enrich Rogers in multiple millions of dollars, they would not have done so. Where do those millions of dollars come from, thin air? No, they are taken out of the pockets of first, the credit card companies, and then passed through to the credit card holders, and Rogers clients, who have to pay the bill two weeks earlier, or actually, if you want to consider credit card grace periods, some people may have to pay that amount a month earlier or more, not just half a month, and Rogers gets the amount they billed half way through the use cycle. If Rogers did this to coordinate Shaw and Rogers' billings, to simplify their systems, which might be valid on their behalf, even though I still object to paying before my usage is complete, they should have shaved some reasonable amount, like perhaps 1% off that second bill to compensate for the earlier payment.  That would have at least shown some good will.

And just to answer your other post in this one, you misquoted me.  I stated "If that double billing on my credit card statement", which is totally accurate, two billings within one month.  You quoted only part of the quote out of context, and implied I stated that I had been billed twice for the same or overlapping service period, which was not what I stated.  If you wish to quote me, the courtesy of not extracting part of the quote so it can be misinterpreted would be most appreciated.  Thank you.

[proud-boomer]

see my other reply. you took my words out of context.

[mdk]

@proud-boomer  wrote I received TWO billings on my August Statement.

Was it 2 invoices from Rogers, or from your RogersBank credit-card, or some other credit-card.

As the "fine print" on your Rogers invoice from July states, the changes in the due date became effective after your first-of-two invoices.  That is exactly what you have stated.

If you pay rent, you must pay on the 1st day of the month, you are "pre-billed" for the usage throughout the month. On the other hand, payment to Rogers is due on the 14th day of receiving their services, namely "post-pay", and then "pre-pay" for the rest of the billing period. So, Rogers is more "generous" than your landlord/building-management-company.  Similarly, to avoid interest charges (if you were to pay monthly) on your automobile insurance, you probably "pre-pay" for the full upcoming year. Thus, Rogers policy is better than some other companies.

[proud-boomer]

>Was it 2 invoices from Rogers, or from your RogersBank credit-card, or some other credit-card.

Not exactly sure what you mean. The two charges were on the same monthly credit card statement. Since Rogers doesn't issue paper bills anymore, and since I am on a pre-authorized plan, I don't usually download my statement each month when I am notified by email, and when I do finally get to it, with so many other monthly statements I receive of more consequence, I rarely have the time, or at least take the time to read Rogers little love notes at the end of the statements,. so I was not aware of the notice of this change, but I am not raising this relative to whether I received adequate notice, but of the date of billing itself.

Yes, typically landlords are paid prior to the month being paid for If my landlord then came to me and asked me to pay another rent mid month I'd tell them to take a leap, no matter how much notice I was given. Rent is a bit different than other such service billings, for one thing there are strict regulations on when rent is due, when notice has to be given to move, rent increases, how long you are given to move under different circumstances, and so forth, in provincial legislation, and if you haven't given your landlord notice at least a day before your rent is due, even if you moved on the second day of the month, the landlord is entitled to the rent for not giving adequate notice of 30 days plus 1, so the circumstances do differ. Yes, insurance is almost always paid prior to the period you are paying for. This is also different, because a person is buying a protective product which you can make claims against. It would be quite difficult for insurance providers if their clients could be paying retroactively for future protection, since it is risk based system, and no one can predicts if or when a claim might be required.  Most insurance products do have an option of paying in smaller than one year time base, some every month, some quarterly, and yes, the person pays an interest premium to do so.