Bad Experience with Blue Curve upgrade

[Creedence85]

I am having a horrible experience upgrading my TV and internet to Blue Curve, have tried to address my concerns to customer support, and have received wrong or conflicting information from various levels along he way.  I do appreciate that this is probably the worst time in recent history to be dealing with technical problems as a result of the COVID-19 crisis, but that should not prevent customer service people from understanding their basic products and services. 

Things started with a visit to the Shaw Store where I wondered what internet and TV plans were available on Blue Curve, since I have been experiencing price creep in my cable and internet for some time, and I have two older Motorola PVRs which work fine, but are on the old guide and do not get the MPEG4 channels.  Three different trips, talking to three different people, I received different and conflicting information from all of them about what channels and packages were specifically available on Blue Curve compared to the regular system, and then how pricing worked.  Finally, on the last visit, I got the Customer Loyalty number and decided to try them.     

The Customer Loyalty agent confirmed how the TV packages worked, how pricing worked for existing customers, offered a good deal, and recommended using the wireless TV boxes even though I have doubts about the reliability with WIFI and HD video.  He also said that installation was very easy, could either be done with the Shaw app, online, or on the phone.  I received the wireless TV boxes and Gateway modem very quickly, placing the order on Monday Mar. 16, and receiving the hardware the morning of Tuesday Mar. 17, so I was very happy about that.  Unfortunately, this would be the last thing that I was happy about, as the installation, which was supposed to be easy, was anything but easy. 

The Loyalty agent neglected to tell me that the wireless boxes only have HDMI, and since one of my TVs has an audio receiver that is not HDMI, I need a digital coax or optical audio output.  I followed the instructions that came with the hardware, downloaded the Shaw Blue Curve app, logged in, it said I needed to connect to my.shaw.ca and activate Blue Curve, but there was no activate Blue Curve option.  I called tech support, and the agent explained to me that this was common, and he didn’t understand why they were telling people to activate online when it does not work.  He activated the Gateway modem, and I explained that I would like to use my own router, as I have multiple wired devices, and he said that the only way to use my own router with Blue Curve was to bridge the router, but that the wireless TV boxes would not work with a bridged router, so I would have to go to wired TV boxes, which I was fine with because of my aforementioned preference for wired video and the HDMI issue on the one TV.  I was confused by the modem because the Cisco modem and the Hitron modems can be used with a separate router, they just have a double NAT if not ported, but that does not cause a problem for me, so why would the Gateway not just assign an IP to a separate router, yet he insisted the Gateway was different.  Tech support said they had to transfer me to Customer Service, and they would order the wired boxes and port the modem or order the Hitron modem which can be used with a separate router.  Customer Service ordered the wired TV boxes, but said there were none in stock so I would have to call back later.  I was confused by this because I do not understand why they can not put in an order without stock, but he explained the system does not allow for orders to be placed when there is no stock.  I said that was unacceptable, that I had already been at this for over an hour, and we needed to deal with the issue, so could he please give me a better option.  We checked but said that there was nothing he could do.  I relented, and said that I also needed to bridge the modem, and he said he would have to transfer me to Tech Support.  I waited to talk to Tech Support, explained the issues again, and the agent went about bridging the modem.  Once that was complete, I explained the issue with the TV boxes, and she insisted there was nothing that could be done.  I said again that this was unacceptable, and that I was on the verge of canceling the whole thing, so in the interest of good customer relations, I need another option.  She insisted again there was nothing she could do, so I asked her to cancel everything, and she said she had to transfer me back to Customer Support.  I strongly insisted that it was not okay to transfer me again, that I had explained the issue to the first Technical Support person, had now been transferred three times, so she either needed to figure out how to address my issue or let me speak to someone who could. 

At this point I asked to speak to a supervisor and was transferred again.  I explained the whole issue to the supervisor, and he confirmed there was no way to order the TV boxes when they were out of stock.  I said that makes no sense, is very inconvenient, to which he agreed.  He said he would try to manually add a note to my account, but then said he could not make the system do that.  He spent some time looking around in the system and finally found one box he could send me, but then said I would have to call back and order the second box in a few days.  I then speed tested the internet, it was slow, they reset the modem, it was still slow, so they arranged to send a tech out the next day.  I also happened to notice the display on my old TV box flash a message, so I decided to check my TVs, and one of them was working and the other was not.  I mentioned it to the Tech and he said that the old TV boxes stop working when Blue Curve is activated, and that they would have to be reactivated on my account, so he transferred me back to Customer Service where we went about reactivating the boxes.  I was glad I checked the TV, because they neglected to tell me the old boxes would disconnect, so then I would have had to call back and have them activated. 

Following this, I tried to call the agent from Customer Loyalty directly a couple of times, only receiving voicemail.  The next day I called again, receiving voicemail, called the main number and it had a recording noting the office was closed due to COVID-19 which is understandable.   

The tech came the next day, checked the line strength, said it was fine, and installed a MOCA filter on the line.  He was friendly and informative, so I mentioned the issues I had been having, and he said that wired boxes are definitely the way to go, and when I mentioned they did not have a way to order boxes when they were out of stock, he looked confused.  I also mentioned the modem issue, and he said that the Gateway modem can be used with a separate router, just like the Hitron, it will just have double NAT.  This baffled me that Technical Support would not know that, and insisted I had to run the modem bridged if I wanted a separate router.  He then said he would make a note on my account that the customer was unhappy but I have yet to hear anything further from customer service.  There again, this is understandable as things are slowed down from COVID-19. 

On Mar. 22 I connected to the live chat to check on a wired box, the agent said they still do not have any stock, and it will be a few weeks before they get more.  I reiterated that this whole situation would not have happened if they had given me the correct information and sent me the correct hardware in the first place, and while I appreciate the issue surrounding COVID-19, giving me the wrong info, sending me the wrong hardware, and not knowing how your products work has nothing to do with that.  He said he would make a note on my account and check back in a few weeks and order a wired box.  I confirmed this was something he could do, as multiple people before had said they could not do it, but he said that he could. 

The problem on the TV end is I cannot activate before receiving the second TV box, as my old TV boxes will stop working once Blue Curve is activated.  Now that I know I can use a separate router, I could use the one wireless box on the HDMI receiver, and the wired on the non HDMI receiver, but this would involve having to reset the modem in order to unbridge it.  I am concerned about the modem not connecting properly in the process so wondering if it is worth trying to do that, or just wait for the second wired box, because I could be on hold for hours if either the modem or the TV boxes go off.  

I have no choice but to wait and see, however, I am tempted to return all of the new equipment and just go back to what I had before, or possibly even cancel Shaw altogether.  

[mdk]

> as my old TV boxes will stop working once Blue Curve is activated. 

Really?  On my Shaw account, I have 3 boxes that work: one "antique" Motorola PVR (160 GB, with 1TB Expander), one Pace (no disk-drive), and one Gateway (500 GB). Yes, I know that I should simplify things.

Currently, the Gateway has an HDMI connection to my TV - I am not currently using any Portal boxes.

Over time, activating one box has NOT caused the deactivation of any of the other boxes.

[rstra]

BlueCurve boxes and legacy boxes can’t co-exist on the same account.

[rickatk]

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@Creedence85 wrote:

I am having a horrible experience upgrading my TV and internet to Blue Curve, have tried to address my concerns to customer support, and have received wrong or conflicting information from various levels along he way.  I do appreciate that this is probably the worst time in recent history to be dealing with technical problems as a result of the COVID-19 crisis, but that should not prevent customer service people from understanding their basic products and services. 

     ...

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I am a long time Shaw customer. Over the past year or so I have been using BlueSky and now BlueCurve wireless tv players, as well the BlueCurve Gateway cable/router solution, with pods for internet and wifi. All with good results.

The Blue Curve product components are designed to be a self install products.

Mix and match, while possible, has limited results. Mix and match is not really the best route to go. Stick with all BlueCurve gear.

If you are happy with your plan stick with it. New packages like Total TV tend to be more expensive than legacy packages. I am using an older plan on my modern BlueCurve hardware.

Try to use just your BlueCurve modem/router, (forget about bridging and third party wifi routers and expanders, especially if you are using the wireless tv players.

If your wifi system requires a little help with signal have a look at the pods.

The wireless tv players are meant to be a single connection self installed device.

If your tv has an HDMI port that is all you need to connect the wireless tv player.

When setting up your devices BlueCurve should be able to configure your tv audio settings including HDMI. As long as the tv model is recognized.

You can make manual adjustments to your HDMI audio port as required.

With the wireless tv players all PVR functions are cloud based.

If the wireless tv players are not for you, then get a Blue Sky tuner and satellites. Again don’t try to mix with your older gear.

The only reason (in addition to the cool factor) I went with the wireless tv player was to get tv in my kitchen where there was no cable jack. Otherwise I would have probably stayed with coax connected Blue Sky TV boxes. Fortunately my wifi network is very stable around the house. 

Loyalty is rewarded in the plans you sign up for and time spent with Shaw. I didn’t find the Shaw Loyalty Department (although very nice folks) any better than the agents. They all work off predetermined package codes, there isn’t a lot of latitude in setting these rates. 

I think some of your problems arise from trying to keep legacy gear in your setup vis a vis mixing and matching.

I hope you find my comments helpful.

[Creedence85]

@rickatk , thanks for your comments.  Here are some follow ups specific to my situation.

I'm not attempting to mix and match Blue Curve with legacy TV boxes, nor would I expect this to be an option.  I have 2 TVs and am trying to get them both on Blue Curve.  I only had to reactivate my legacy PVRs temporarily until I get wired Blue Curve TV boxes as the wireless boxes won't work work due to the modem and HDMI issue, either of which has to do with legacy equipment.  

Cable and Telco modem/routers work for the majority of people with simple setups, and are especially convenient as wifi becomes more prevalent.  For more advanced users, modem/routers are problematic as the router functions are very simple, so it's quite common for those users to use their own routers.  I have 2 desktop computers, a server (for network storage and backup), a media adaptor on one of the TVs, all wired with static IP, a printer wired on dynamic IP, with port forwarding from Remote Desktop and FTP,   I could connect everything to the XB6 if I got a switch, but I already have everything configured on a good router, so I don't want the hassle of getting everything to play nice on the XB6.  In addition to that, I don't expect Shaw to provide advanced routing in their modem/routers, as they work well for most, I just want the ability to do the routing I need with my hardware.  The Legacy agent neglected to mention any issues using a separate router, and the Tech Support person gave me the wrong information that the XB6 Gateway modem/router needed for Blue Curve has to be bridged to use a separate router, as apparently it can be used unbridged it would just have double NAT like all of Shaw's other modem/routers.  I had this setup with the Cisco modem and never bothered bridging it because double NAT wasn't a problem for me.  

My 2 TVs have audio receivers, I am not using the TV speakers nor am I willing to use them.  One of the audio receivers is an HDMI switching receiver which will work fine.  The other audio receiver is not HDMI, so I need a digital audio output for sound.  This is possible on the wired Blue Curve box because it has a digital optical audio (Toslink) but not possible on the wireless Bluecurve TV box because it only has HDMI.  I could buy an HDMI to optical audio extractor but that's a hassle and a lynch in the audio chain I'd like to avoid.  TV speakers and sound bars are most common, but there are still a number of people out there with good non HDMI audio systems out there.  HDMI can also a twitchy beast due to HDCP syncing issues, so even with HDMI receivers, some people go HDMI direct to the TV and then run separate audio if having issues.

[rickatk]

“Cable and Telco modem/routers work for the majority of people with simple setups, and are especially convenient as wifi becomes more prevalent. “

Indeed your requirements do sound more complicated than a garden variety consumer setup.

Good luck getting things sorted out. 

[Creedence85]

I talked to Shaw on live chat on Apr. 8, they still didn't have any portals, but they now have PVRs which I confirmed are the XG1v3. I had been previously told that I couldn't use 2 XG1v3s, that I could only have 1 XG1v3 the other TVs needed to be on XiD portals, but this customer support person said that was incorrect and that I could have the 2 XG1v3s. I ordered it, so we'll see how it works.  There is a $15/mo rental on the second XG1v3 which I'll have to pay, even though I asked if they could waive the rental fee until more XiDs arrived, so I guess I'm not a shrewd negotiator. A couple weeks ago when I got the first XG1v3 connected, I asked if they could reduce my bill because I wasn't able to get service on both my TVs, and they gave me a $49.53 credit which was great. Before signing up for Bluecurve I was paying about $186/mo, now I'm paying $132/mo for the next 2 years, and with the $49.53 credit I can rent a box for a month or two and still be ahead, or keep renting it until the end of the term and still be saving $39 from what I was paying before.

I received the second XG1v3 on Apr. 13, it's working great.  Then I got a call I got a call on Apr. 22 from Shaw Customer Support following up on a survey I filled out where I outlined the issues. They apologized for the problem and confirmed that the modem and cable boxes were working. They also said that the local depot had some XiD portals, so would have an installer drop one off, take the second XG1v3 box back, and refund the $15 rental. On Apr. 17 the installer called (same guy who installed the Moca filter) called, dropped off the the box, and then guided me through self install. Everything is now working great, so even though the process was long and frustrating, the increased service and savings are now feeling worth it.

I thought everything was settled, but then on Apr. 18 I got my bill for Apr. and it was a bit of a mess. There was an outstanding amount from the previous month even though I'd paid the bill on time and the correct amount. All of the equipment that had been put on and taken off the account were listed with charged and credits, but with a net $3.87. There was a $25 charge for an unreturned Cisco modem (the old modem) which I had, but had not been told to return, or given any return instructions. Appreciating explaining this on the live chat was going to be problematic, I called, used the call back feature which took about 45 mins to get the call back, then about another 17 mins on hold once receiving the call back. The customer support person was very helpful, and explained the that the amount owing from the previous month wasn't actually owing, it was just from the $49.35 credit and the way that they show it. The $3.87 equipment charges couldn't be explained but were reversed. They send me the return info for the modem and said it will be refunded once they receive it. Finally they gave me the new amount to pay on the bill. I packed the modem and took it to Canada Post later that day. Hopefully next month's bill will be reconciled.

I do have to say that the TV image and audio quality on the XG1v3 and the XiD are excellent and a noticeable improvement over the DCT3416, so am guessing this has to do with it being a different system and possibly more HEVC MPEG-4 channels? Image quality appears clearer, the colours are more defined, with a lack of digital noise, so broadcast channels look a lot closer to the antenna. Audio appears to be clearer, particularly dialogue. The digital music channels are quite listenable and sound like a moderate-high bitrate, whereas on the DCT3416 they sounded moderate to low. This is on the same TV, with the image calibration settings, and the same audio equipment. I'll be curious to see the results on my other TV. I don't know how mileage would vary on any of the DCX boxes with the new guide, though the MPEG-2 channels should be the same between the DCT3416 and the DCX?

[Vancouver3]

Also having a bad experience upgrading. Agreed to get the new boxes as they would bring by rate down. I planned not to use them right away, as I still had a few things to watch off the old pvr. Purolator delivered the new equipment a few days later, and within 10 minutes of that, the old box shut down, while I was still using it. I hadn't done anything, they were still sitting in the other room, un-opened. The display changed to read "no ip", and I could not even get on to see my recordings. Chatted in to tech support, and they said that since the new boxes have been added to my account, the old one was removed, and there is absolutely no way that they can turn on the old one for me to use, as they aren't compatible... They kept saying there was nothing they could do, and that I would have to turn to On Demand to make up for whatever is still on the old box... (my shows aren't available On Demand)

[mdk]

@Vancouver3 -- by "new boxes", do you mean the Shaw Gateway PVR with optional coaxial-cable connected TV boxes, or the Shaw BlueCurve PVR with optional WiFi pods?

When I added a Shaw Gateway PVR to my account, my "antique" Motorola PVR (with its recordings) stayed as "activated". Also, a PACE HD Terminal (soon to be "retired" by Shaw) stayed as "activated".

If you look backward in this thread, on 2020-03-23 at 11:31 AM, Master @rstra  wrote BlueCurve boxes and legacy boxes can't co-exist on the same account.

Weird, but I have no reason to doubt his statement. Perhaps, there are technical issues, Perhaps, it is "pressure" by Shaw to retire their "legacy" set-top TV terminals.

[Vancouver3]

Thanks for the reply. 

Downstairs I have the XG1-A, and Upstairs I believe is the DCX3510-M. Neither would let me continue to watch live shows after the new equipment was delivered, but only the upstairs one locked me out of the box completely. I can still view the pvr downstairs. 

I too find it strange (and annoying) that they don't allow both systems to be on the account. Perhaps things shouldn't be automatically disconnected just because new equipment shows up? 😑

Going to call and ask what can be done. I simply want to finish the last of my programming on the 3510 before I send it back. If that means them disconnecting the new boxes so I can do that, so be it. 

Not too pleased with them.