Routing issues

[suey]

Hey all, I’m having issues with high ping in online games. I believe it’s due to the path we’re routed, I live in Alberta and connect to west coast servers. One of the first hops we take goes to Toronto, then to Vancouver, then usually Winnipeg, then Vancouver, then down to Amazon’s servers. The cities I mentioned are all on Shaw’s end and are pretty consistent with every tracert I run.

I’m not the biggest IT guy but I can think of no other reason why our ping is higher (80-100 ping vs 35-55 everywhere else near me).

@shaw-tony I’ve seen this man anytime I look up an issue on these forums, and he ALWAYS has a solution. I’m (desperately) asking for your help in this. I am dying during this quarantine not being able to compete in my online games 😞

Thanks in advance!

[mdk]

@suey -- rather than giving "qualitative" information, namely a generic description of the routers, could you please use the TRACERT command-line utility in Windows to show the path between your computer and the IP-address of the game-server.

Also, note that PING traffic is sometimes processed as "low-priority" or "noise" traffic, that a router would give lower priority to, than to routing "actual" customer traffic.  Also, some routers defend against "denial-of-service" attacks (a flood of PING or TRACEROUTE packets) by not responding.

[suey]

@mdk Here is a tracert:

Tracing route to ec2-13-56-63-251.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com [13.56.63.251]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 20 ms 7 ms 5 ms Docsis-Gateway.lm.shawcable.net [10.0.0.1]
2 14 ms 14 ms 17 ms 50.65.0.1
3 46 ms 44 ms 43 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]
4 51 ms 47 ms 47 ms rc3no-be6.cg.shawcable.net [66.163.64.69]
5 72 ms 74 ms 67 ms rc2wt-be100.wa.shawcable.net [66.163.75.233]
6 68 ms 63 ms 64 ms 99.82.176.42
7 65 ms 67 ms 71 ms 52.95.53.219
8 68 ms 61 ms 62 ms 52.95.53.155
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 89 ms 81 ms 87 ms 54.239.42.221
12 82 ms 81 ms 89 ms 54.239.43.47
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 86 ms 83 ms 85 ms 54.240.242.70
17 87 ms 83 ms 82 ms 54.240.242.87
18 83 ms 98 ms 88 ms 72.21.222.17
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 86 ms 86 ms 88 ms ec2-13-56-63-251.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com [13.56.63.251]

Trace complete.

I've only ever used tracert in windows for these tests, the hops that end in shawcable.net have all been consistent.

I should also mention this isn't a new issue, it has been on going since we first signed up with shaw. However, I did live in a different location 200km-ish away, and my ping drastically reduced by about 40ms. Any other info required please let me know and I'll get it to you!

[mdk]

> #1 20 ms 7 ms 5 ms Docsis-Gateway.lm.shawcable.net [10.0.0.1]

Those values are "high" for an Ethernet(?) connection between your computer, and your Shaw router  [10.0.0.1]

I'm not sure what "lm" is an abbreviation for. Some town/suburb near Edmonton?

Can you try a different Ethernet cable, and/or a different Ethernet-connected computer?

> #2 14 ms 14 ms 17 ms 50.65.0.1

Shaw's own router in your neighbourhood -- Shaw reserves "xx.yy.zz.1" for their routers.

> #3 46 ms 44 ms 43 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]

Edmonton ?

> #4 51 ms 47 ms 47 ms rc3no-be6.cg.shawcable.net [66.163.64.69]

Calgary ?

> #5 72 ms 74 ms 67 ms rc2wt-be100.wa.shawcable.net [66.163.75.233]

Washington State?

> #6 68 ms 63 ms 64 ms 99.82.176.42

This is an IP-address assigned to AMAZON.

I don't see any routing through Winnipeg nor Vancouver nor Toronto ?!

[shaw-tony]

@suey hmm, that is certainly odd. Do you have traceroutes to google, youtube, and amazon.ca just to compare?

[mdk]

@suey -- I'm not sure what "lm" is an abbreviation for. Some town/suburb near Edmonton?

Maybe, "Lamont", about 70 km on Highway 15 to the east of Edmonton? Not that this makes any difference.

The PING time between your computer and your router should be less than 1 ms. Try a different Ethernet cable, or move your WiFi device much closer to your router, and then re-test.  Or, just disconnect the Ethernet cable, and reconnect it, to get a good physical connection.

[rstra]

-  I'm not sure what "lm" is an abbreviation for. Some town/suburb near Edmonton?

It is Lloydminster, that is how shaw names their servers. Also, the ping time to the gateway is normal for BlueCurve.

[suey]

Thanks for the reply!

I've just run these today, and a little disclaimer, I have set up with teksavvy as they said they would route us differently. I was under the impression it wouldn't use your network at all, but it still does, so the path we take hasn't changed a ton but it seems like it takes fewer hops now, so I've noticed a slight improvement in times, however it still makes the first few hops on your network. 

I will also mention we're not in a contract and this is just a test to see if this would fix our problem. I have no issues with re-signing with Shaw if we can get our ping to a normal level 🙂

Here are the results for amazon.com, youtube.com, and google.com:

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert google.com

Tracing route to google.com [172.217.10.110]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 50.65.0.1
3 54 ms 53 ms 52 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]
4 26 ms 25 ms 24 ms rc2ar-be7.ed.shawcable.net [66.163.70.130]
5 43 ms 43 ms 58 ms xe-0-2-0-828-bdr01-cgr.teksavvy.com [104.246.174.241]
6 55 ms 58 ms 56 ms gw-google.yycix.ca [206.126.225.128]
7 58 ms 59 ms 57 ms 74.125.243.178
8 * 63 ms * 172.253.71.128
9 100 ms 97 ms 97 ms 108.170.233.244
10 99 ms 102 ms 97 ms 209.85.143.102
11 95 ms 95 ms 94 ms 216.239.57.137
12 107 ms 106 ms 107 ms 209.85.255.37
13 97 ms 103 ms 101 ms 108.170.248.33
14 94 ms 98 ms 100 ms 172.253.71.167
15 95 ms 94 ms 94 ms lga34s15-in-f14.1e100.net [172.217.10.110]

Trace complete.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert amazon.com

Tracing route to amazon.com [176.32.98.166]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms 50.65.0.1
3 41 ms 41 ms 44 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]
4 27 ms 25 ms 28 ms rc2ar-be7.ed.shawcable.net [66.163.70.130]
5 42 ms 42 ms 43 ms xe-0-2-0-852-bdr01-cgr.teksavvy.com [104.246.174.221]
6 65 ms 62 ms 59 ms ae3-0-bdr01-wpg.teksavvy.com [206.248.155.85]
7 70 ms 65 ms 69 ms ae9-0-bdr01-tor.teksavvy.com [206.248.155.160]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert youtube.com

Tracing route to youtube.com [172.217.164.110]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 50.65.0.1
3 40 ms 40 ms 40 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]
4 24 ms 25 ms 24 ms rc2ar-be7.ed.shawcable.net [66.163.70.130]
5 44 ms 42 ms 43 ms xe-0-2-0-853-bdr01-cgr.teksavvy.com [104.246.174.225]
6 54 ms 53 ms 62 ms ae4-0-agg01-van2.teksavvy.com [206.248.155.181]
7 48 ms 46 ms 44 ms pr01-et-0-3-0-0.sea09.net.google.com [206.81.80.17]
8 44 ms 49 ms 44 ms 108.170.245.124
9 66 ms 66 ms 75 ms 172.253.71.138
10 112 ms 108 ms 109 ms 209.85.253.9
11 109 ms 107 ms 107 ms 74.125.253.148
12 100 ms 97 ms 100 ms 108.170.243.1
13 96 ms 96 ms 96 ms 209.85.252.251
14 110 ms 110 ms 111 ms sfo03s18-in-f14.1e100.net [172.217.164.110]

Trace complete.

[suey]

hey @mdk , I've replied to Tony with some different tracert's. The reason the ping was high was because that was over wifi. That was the only tracert I had saved as we were in the middle of switching providers. Normally the time is less than 1ms.

and LM is Lloydminster, sorry about that. I live in Vermilion which is just a little west of Lloydminster. 

[mdk]

> 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1

To your own Shaw cable-modem/router.

> 2  7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 50.65.0.1

Typical response-times to the closest Shaw router in any town/city.

> 3 54 ms 53 ms 52 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]

It's a 5.5 hour drive from "LM" to Edmonton. This could be a saturated link.

> 4 26 ms 25 ms 24 ms rc2ar-be7.ed.shawcable.net [66.163.70.130]

Odd that adding one "hop" gives a *faster* response. I would have expected a slight increase in time.

> 5 43 ms 43 ms 58 ms xe-0-2-0-828-bdr01-cgr.teksavvy.com [104.246.174.241]

Out of Shaw's network, into TekSavvy's network -- beyond Shaw's control.

> 6 55 ms 58 ms 56 ms gw-google.yycix.ca [206.126.225.128]

The "YYC" packet-interchange gateway, crossing-over to any one of many other networks.

> 7 58 ms 59 ms 57 ms 74.125.243.178

A router within Google's network.

So, the only "hop" where it could be faster between Edmonton and "LM".

================================

> 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
> 2 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms 50.65.0.1
> 3 41 ms 41 ms 44 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]
> 4 27 ms 25 ms 28 ms rc2ar-be7.ed.shawcable.net [66.163.70.130]
> 5 42 ms 42 ms 43 ms xe-0-2-0-852-bdr01-cgr.teksavvy.com [104.246.174.221]

Same routing: "LM" -> Edmonton -> Calgary(?)

> 6 65 ms 62 ms 59 ms ae3-0-bdr01-wpg.teksavvy.com [206.248.155.85]

Winnipeg?

> 7 70 ms 65 ms 69 ms ae9-0-bdr01-tor.teksavvy.com [206.248.155.160]

Toronto?

> 8 * * * Request timed out.

A router that is configured to not respond to TRACEROUTE packets.

==================================

> 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
> 2 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 50.65.0.1
> 3 40 ms 40 ms 40 ms rc2we-be134-1.ed.shawcable.net [64.59.185.117]

> 4 24 ms 25 ms 24 ms rc2ar-be7.ed.shawcable.net [66.163.70.130]
> 5 44 ms 42 ms 43 ms xe-0-2-0-853-bdr01-cgr.teksavvy.com [104.246.174.225]

Same routing, to Calgary, after exiting from routers managed by Shaw.

> 6 54 ms 53 ms 62 ms ae4-0-agg01-van2.teksavvy.com [206.248.155.181]

Vancouver?

> 7 48 ms 46 ms 44 ms pr01-et-0-3-0-0.sea09.net.google.com [206.81.80.17]

Seattle ?

=================================

> the path we take hasn't changed a ton but it seems like it takes fewer hops now, so I've noticed a slight improvement in times, however it still makes the first few hops on your network. 

Agreed.

> I have no issues with re-signing with Shaw if we can get our ping to a normal level.

What numbers do you think are "normal" ?

===============================

From Vancouver Island, I see an average of 27 milliseconds to that router in Edmonton, and 43 milliseconds for just one "hop" more, to that router in "LM". 

I wonder if "LM" is a central "hub" for all of Shaw's Internet traffic for all the towns within 100 Km of "LM".

Does Shaw service "nearby" North Battleford via "LM" or via Saskatoon? North Battleford seems to be midway between those 2 cities.

Near to "LM", Wainright is probably served from Viking, along Highway 14 (the most-likely path for any electric/telephone/fibre cables to have been laid, and to be accessible for service).

So, no matter if you get service from Shaw or TekSavvy, the cable paralleling Highway 15 is your "path" to the outside world.  That segment is where any "improvement" would have the greatest effect.